Speaker 1 - 00:00 All right. Thank you so much, Ali Walker, for coming on the show. This is Pop Up Conversations. We talk to artists across the country about their music journey. We're particularly interested in the artist journey, and we couldn't be more excited and happy to have you here today. So thank you for giving us your time. Speaker 2 - 00:17 Yeah. Thank you for having me. It's good to talk to you again. Speaker 1 - 00:20 Yes. And by again, that alludes to the fact that we talked. And I was listening to that interview earlier today. We talked in 2020, just before Christmas, and I went back to listen to that interview, and it's amazing. All that has occurred in two years for you. Just where we left off in that conversation. You had spoken about you writing new music for what I suppose would be what it is that you're putting out right now. But I want to know what has occurred in terms of. Of. Of just your music itself and growth that has happened in the last two years. So what have you been up to in the last two years? Speaker 2 - 01:02 Yeah, I mean, Pandemic. So were. I was just writing, writing mostly on Zoom because we couldn't be in person. And I always said no to Zoom because there's just that connection that is lost. But it actually went really well. And I'm glad that people are continuing to write on Zoom because I'm getting to write with people from across the country that I would never normally have met in person. So that's been good. And getting to write with different perspectives and then also growth wise, I've just grown up another two years, which is nice. And my upcoming album is actually a lot about that. Growing up, what I've realized as I go into my 30s and my priorities are different and I'm very wanting to be around family a lot more, realizing family is most important. Speaker 2 - 01:53 So there's a lot of those messages in this new music. Speaker 1 - 01:58 Awesome, awesome. So I want to be very particular about the four singles that you've put out so far, because I listen to it and I go back to listen to the basement sessions, what I've learned so far, and it's quite different, so I'm excited. But when we spoke about at that last album you talked about, there were pieces in there that spoke about how you had been intentional the 10 years prior in trying to craft a sound and fnd a sound. Would you say that the four songs that has been put out so far, do you say it's a realization of that journey, of that process? Speaker 2 - 02:37 Yeah. So my frst album, it was very based on what. What I had learned so far. So there was a lot. In my twenties I was going. My mental health was like up and down. I quit drinking for four years to make sure I was, you know, my headspace was in the right spot. And I was writing about, you know, my mental health journey, my journey to love myself and the comparisons that we all have from social media or within your career. And my last song I had put out was called Little Things and it was just being grateful for the little thing. So it was kind of like a little wrap up to that idea and concept album. Speaker 2 - 03:16 Then for this next album, I didn't want to stray too far from that, but I had responsibly started drinking again and, you know, really found my love for country music. I've always loved country music. My frst single was country music. I wanted kind of show people how I grew up and what songs I listened to growing up and packed that right into one song as an introduction to this next album of some of the things and sounds that you can hear on the album all wrapped in one song. And then going into the next song, maybe I'm Still Drunk. That was the frst song that I ever recorded that I didn't write and that was brought to me by my producer. Speaker 2 - 04:02 And we looked at the album as a whole and there was a lot of like deep songs and we touched on lots of good subjects that we kind of just needed like a fun drinking song because everybody likes a fun drinking. So. So it was up tempo, like we needed an up tempo song. So we recorded that song and that one is just super fun. It's about being hungover, which I've been way too many times. And. And we got to do nice little music video for that. And then the next song was Hometown Home, which is like. It's not like a super deep personal song, but it's very personal to me and exactly what I'm going through right now. Speaker 2 - 04:42 And that is moving from where I've lived for the last 12 years to my husband's hometown and trying to fgure out mentally how I make someone else's hometown my hometown. So that is a very autobiographical song that is happening literally right now. And then this new song, Red Wine or Whiskey? It sounds like it's about alcohol and it is, but it's not a drinking song. It's. It's just a metaphor for having two personalities, which is like exactly what I am. I have my very low key introvert and then I have my extrovert when I'm like out and being Ali Walker music. So it's still very autobiographical, this whole album. Speaker 1 - 05:26 Okay. Okay. So it. So thank you so much for taking me through that journey. I love it because the sounds in itself. So what I have found most fascinating is that I was talking to. I was talking to my wife earlier today and were talking about. I was trying to tell her at. I think what I admire most about you and your craft is the level at which you execute. And it's so professionally done. I think I expressed this to you the frst time we spoke. So how has all of the songs come together in terms of just the music itself and the visuals that you wanted to put on them? Because they are so. It feels like you. They're just like the own little flms like you're watching. They're very distinct. They're speaking to the lyrics of the song itself. Speaker 1 - 06:22 So how did you go about putting a visual on these songs that had. Had. That you had written and created? Speaker 2 - 06:30 Well, thank you for saying that. I appreciate that. And that was defnitely. Everything has been very thought out. And fnancially, as an independent artist, doing music videos for every single song is a lot. So I had to. I initially went into this thinking I was just going to do visualizer videos just to have some content out to visual content with each song. But then I started working with the crew that I'm working with for video. And we can't just do anything mediocre, so we kind of. It's not like a full storyline for every single song, but it is. I wanted it to be cinematic. I wanted it to have, like a darker, moodier vibe rather than, like, vibrant and girly. Like, I'm very tomboy and I love videography and cinematography. And I just wanted it to be very. Speaker 2 - 07:24 A certain look, which I think is kind of what you're talking about. But then each song also having its own kind of branding and. And life. So, yeah, everything was defnitely thought out, even from the tone of my voice in this whole album. I sang covers for, like, you know, 10 years, so I kind of learned how to sing in a bunch of different ways. And singing covers is great when you're trying to fgure out who you are as an artist and what your sound is. But what I realized is that I enjoy singing in my speaking voice, basically. So, yes, I can do all these, like, crazy things if I really wanted to. But when it comes to storytelling, I. I've learned that people hear it in, like, a lower tone, so I really just sing as I speak. Speaker 2 - 08:15 And I have actually never told anybody that, but I received a lot of Comments like on Tick Tock and such that I guess people have gone into this more than I have. But there's an actual tone where people, if it's too high, it's actually like a little triggering to the earth and that they like. They like that I sing in a lower tone because it's more warm and you can receive it better. Someone explained the whole thing to me, and I'm like, well, I didn't think of it in that way, but I was thinking of it that I was just wanting to be perceived as like, my speaking voice and, like, I'm speaking to you and storytelling. So everything defnitely has been thought out in that way. Even when I was singing the songs that I didn't write, like, I didn't. Speaker 2 - 09:01 I brought it down way lower than the demo that was given to me and wanted to kind of make it my own. Speaker 1 - 09:09 That's. So we're gonna come back to that intentionality a little bit because I really love that about you and about the process. Okay, let's back up a little bit and go to TikTok, because we spoke about TikTok as well. And just before we left off in our last conversation, you had talked about you just getting into TikTok, right? And then you found that it was a platform that could really help you get to the place that you wanted to get to. I was looking at a post on your Instagram page recently, and you have like over 200,000 followers and over like, 1.2 million type, you know, listens or streams or whatever it's called. How have you found that journey of type tiktoking and how has it shaped where we are now? Speaker 2 - 10:00 Yeah, I wouldn't consider myself like a TikToker, but I defnitely was also intentional with this because TikTok is so open to so many different things. Like, what I watch on TikTok isn't what I post on TikTok. Like, I watch, you know, hacks, kitchen hacks or whatever. But if you kind of. You have to stay in your algorithm, which is what I've learned. So I only post original music, country music, and I. I don't do many trends. I'll do here and there, and I'll do covers here and there. But I made sure that the audience that were gonna go and see my videos on the. On that for your page were country music fans. They like storytelling. They have kind of the same morals and values as I am trying to portray, and it really worked. Speaker 2 - 10:49 Like, fnally, it just consistency and putting good content out there. Like fnally hit off. And then when I was speaking to you, I was probably just putting my demos out at that point. I was putting a bunch of demos out on TikTok and they basically, my fans chose which songs I was going to record for this album because again, being an independent artist, you're spending your own money. And I wanted to make sure I put my money in the right spot. And why not put songs that people actually want to hear? And it actually made people come back and request the song over and over. And that's kind of how I've been judging which songs to put out next is like, okay, I feel bad that it's been like a year and a half that these people have been asking for the song. Speaker 2 - 11:35 Let's get that song out, you know, wow. Speaker 1 - 11:39 And it's so neat. I fnd that you're able to keep key into all of this stuff. So the very reason for you not to essentially. So you talk about yourself being an independent artist over and over again. On the outside looking in, it might not seem that way because you appear to be really larger than life. But the point here is that the very reason for you not to be so keyed into all of this algorithms and metrics and how they could affect what you do, the very reason for you not to do them is actually why you do them. Because you want to be efcient and you want to hear audience feedback so that you can actually put out content that's gonna. Is gonna take off, which is fantastic. And I commend you for it. So big ups, like, I love that. Speaker 1 - 12:28 Big ups. Speaker 2 - 12:29 Well, thank you. And to be honest, talking more about TikTok and how it is a good resource for artists is I've seen the actual streams come from when a song does well on TikTok and you can tell the difference. If something just pops up on TikTok and it's. You'll see that it was just sent through by TikTok to everybody and there's a lot of views. But there's a difference between views and engagement on TikTok where you're seeing the saves, you're seeing the comments, you're seeing the likes, and then you go over to your Spotify and Apple and you'll see a spot like in your actual streams. And to me, that's what I'm looking for is to create an actual fan on Tik Tok talk and not just be a tick tocker. Speaker 2 - 13:13 So it's been really cool watching especially this last song, Red Wine or Whiskey, do really well on TikTok. But doing well on TikTok means that they actually became fans, which is what means the most to me. Speaker 1 - 13:27 Just brilliant. Brilliant. So I want to read from your post for something you posted. Okay. I think it'd be your last post. But you said so you're talking about you being on Spotify radar and you said, this is nuts. You've been at this for 15 years and sometimes you can wonder if anyone even listens. So you know, and you go on and talk about how you feel being recognized at distinct stage in your career. So 15 years into the game and all of this is popping up. How. How do we draw? I want you to draw that connection for me between consistency and believing and faith and, and putting out high quality content. I want you to connect all of that dots to me that would lead us here. Speaker 1 - 14:21 I, I'm really fascinated to hear how you've been able to stick to all of this. Speaker 2 - 14:28 It's a lot of like what I said. Sometimes it feels like people aren't listening and you have to just keep putting things out even though you feel like no one's listening. And it's so hard to do that because you truly feel like no one's listening, but you're just doing it anyway. So it's hard to know the roadmap of what to do. And that's been the hardest part for me is it's like I'm such a type A. Give me a checklist and I'll check everything off and I'll make sure that I've done it all right and well. But there's no roadmap for this. And you'll go to like, seminars or you'll listen to podcasts where people are like, you need this many social media followers and this many gigs under your belt and it'll happen for you. Speaker 2 - 15:10 Or, you know, we don't sign people unless they have this or that, but you can tick off all of those things and have more followers or more streams than a bunch of new signed artists and it doesn't make a difference. Like it'll. You'll see someone, you know, get an opportunity that you've been vying forever and you feel like they've just been around for a year. So I try not to get bothered by that and just put my head down like you have to for one, practice and perform for years and write your songs and then fnd out who you are as an artist. Find. Find your voice. But then like I. Speaker 2 - 15:47 You're saying I say a lot as an Independent artist because I feel like I am like the biggest possible independent artist because I do my own graphic design and video, I edit all my own videos, you know, all the branding and everything. And I think it's really good to learn how to do those things because then you're not just handing who you are over to somebody else and not really knowing who you are. And then who you are kind of gets watered down or it's a version of who someone else wants you to be. I kind of went off on your question, but basically you're just shooting in the dark and you do it for 15 years until something happens. And then eventually somebody, if you don't quit, people will start to notice, hopefully. Speaker 1 - 16:37 And I'm so, I'm really so happy for you because at some point the law of averages kick in, I think. And you know, if you have put in what I consider to be really high level content, I'm happy that, you know, you're getting to fnd that reward now. Which leads us to this weekend that you just had. We talked about you being in Calgary and were actually in Calgary, but I didn't fnd the time to come out to some of those events. Speaker 2 - 17:12 Oh really? Speaker 1 - 17:13 Yes, I was. We were. But how was this weekend like and you just being in the presence of country music and doing what you love. How was the weekend like? Like for the CCMAs, it was really good. Speaker 2 - 17:32 I wasn't performing at all. But in the whole other checklist, things you need to do, it's networking and I was there and I had very intentional. I had a list of people that I was gonna meet, I was gonna talk to because as much as you can like DM someone on Instagram or send an email if they. I've spent especially this weekend, I learned if you have a quick conversation with them and they just see you face to face, it's just so much different and they make that connection with you. And everyone just always, they always like think you look different or you seem different online. And so it's just really good to make that connection. And I did get to meet lots of great people this weekend, which is kind of what the CCMAs are for. Speaker 2 - 18:16 There's lots of showcases and other events, but it is just really to make those connections because it's a really small industry in the country, Canadian country music world. So it's just good to see everybody. Speaker 1 - 18:30 Awesome. Awesome. And you had a very lovely outft on. I, I might add. I know you. Speaker 2 - 18:38 Thank you. Speaker 1 - 18:39 Good with the embroidery. It had some fower in there. Speaker 2 - 18:44 Yeah, that's it. So basically cost an arm and a leg. So you're gonna see that in a music video coming up so I can get some good use out of it. Speaker 1 - 18:55 Okay, I'm looking. I will be looking out for that. So the one thing I want to fnd. I know you've touched upon this a little bit, but where does that intentionality come from? I think if. If were to boil all of this down to its very essence, I think what I quote equate you with and your journey with is just there's a. There's a high level intentionality. What. Where. Where do you say that comes from? Speaker 2 - 19:25 Perfectionism, I guess, which is I always thought was a good thing. And I've learned it's actually kind of a bad thing if you. If you use it in a bad way. But I've tried to channel kind of my organizational skills into an actual business plan. And something that worked really well for this specifc project is I applied and did a business grant with Factor, and I got it, which is great because I tried. I tried three times and did not get it. So it was awesome that I fnally got it for this project. And that made me think way more in advance exactly what I was going to do for this whole thing. So I was going to have seven singles, I was gonna have six music videos, six behind the scenes music videos, six lyric videos, what marketing was I gonna do? Speaker 2 - 20:16 I was I gonna do giveaways, what people were gonna work with radio. So I had every single thing laid out for this project that made. And then. And then I worked backward on. On like, calendar when this needed to be done by this time. So every single thing with this whole project was intentional. And it made my brain just work better that I wasn't worried about when this had to be out or I don't have any music coming out, or I think during the pandemic. Writing was great, but in my mind, like, the fact that I wasn't putting anything out, I was missing stuff. So at this point, having music in the bank ready to go and being intentional about every single thing, and the branding and the look, it just appeases to my perfectionist mind. Speaker 1 - 21:07 You know that. That almost sounds like a masterclass I'm telling you for, especially for independent artists, right? Like, what I hear you saying is that you don't want to be running to standstill. You want to have like a vault flled with stuff so that you don't keep. It doesn't feel like so Much of a hustle and the grind that you can actually breathe at certain points. Speaker 2 - 21:31 And I've done lots of programs and I recently, last year, two years ago, did one at Ryerson where it was like kind of this thing that told you should have your like six month goals plan, your two month goal plan and your. And your fve years. So I have a full Excel spreadsheet with like what I feel like I can achieve right now. Two years, fve years. And. And then it like I just start X and things off as I get them and then I have my vision board and then I have like my release schedule, what needs to be out by what time. So it's a lot. Speaker 1 - 22:10 It's just, it's. It's remarkable. Okay. A few, A few last things before I do let you go. Red Wine or Whiskey is your current single out. I just want you touch upon that a little bit deeper and then if, if there's something coming down the pipe that you might want to tell us about. And then so how. Red Wine or Whiskey. Great song. I'm going to tell you my favorite song out of the four that you put out so far. But tell me about how that song came together, where you guys should shot it and just everything that went into it. Speaker 2 - 22:50 This was a zoom during the pandemic, right? And I think it was one of the people was Zach. We met, he's on Five Roses, it's a Canadian country duo. And I, I think I connected with him through my producer because my producer produces them. But then we hooked up with two other songwriters, Aaron Pritchett, Aaron Pollock and Craig Brooks, and never written with, I don't think any of them at that point. And we took two days to write it and it just came together so well. I did a demo with my husband like the next day. So I was so excited about it. And then we sent it to them and they're like, oh my gosh, yes. Speaker 2 - 23:34 And I had already fnished my album, I think, and I went back and added this song because I knew I loved it and my producer loved it and the guys loved it. So that was really not even supposed to be on the album, which is awesome that were able to do that. And just because I love a song, because I always love the last song I wrote, so it's really hard to be decisive on what songs are actually good or not, because you always like your last song that you wrote. And I put the demo on TikTok and it did. Okay, fne. But when I Started promoting the song on Tick Tock. And what I thought I wrote it for my reasons, like just kind of having a double personality. And I have got my red wine sign, I got my whiskey side. Speaker 2 - 24:21 People actually liked it more for the intro lyrics, which are more about coming home from work, having that loved one waiting for you, and just getting to relax and either going out at night or just like, you know, staying in and having a nice evening with your partner. So people have been really resonating with that side of things. And the hard workers and the blue collar and country music fans that like to have a little drink when they come home from working their butt off. And in the music video, I. I wanted it to be dark again, moody. And I searched and searched for a, like a vineyard, like a. A wine cellar in Niagara on the lake. And I wanted there to be like, lots of barrels around. And I really could only fnd one place. Speaker 2 - 25:14 And thankfully they let me use it for free, which is. And didn't even want any promotion or anything. So that was incredible. And it just was exactly what I wanted. You know what I said I wanted, you know, Game of. I don't know if you watch Game of Thrones, but, like, they have these huge tables where. Where like, one person, like the king or whatever, he just sits alone and eats, and it's a huge table. I wanted it to look like that and have like, the big chalices for. For wine and whiskey and basically just be like sitting at home in your. In your wine cellar with your massive table, waiting for your spouse to come home. That was the. That was the intention behind that. Speaker 1 - 26:01 My God, it's. It's so well executed. I think all the four videos, I think maybe I'm still drunk. I think that might be my favorite at this particular time that we're having this conversation. So. But all of the singles that you put out so far, and I think that is what continues to draw me to your music. It's not only that the songs are just well written, but the visuals to them as well are so well thought out, and it's just above and beyond. And I think that's gonna be, you know, what keeps setting you apart, and that's going to be your secret ingredient all the way as you continue to chug along at. At this stuff. Speaker 2 - 26:50 Well, thank you. Because I love writing and recording, but I think I like the video and the creative aspect maybe even more and like, putting out content and just thinking about music videos and editing. I love editing them myself just because I want to be A part of the process as much as possible. And so I appreciate you saying that you love all that stuff. And I could have done like one music video for this whole thing and have a big budget and get casting and have other people in it, but then, you know, I would have. I would have blown all my money one music video. So I did everything a little lower scale, but it's still. I found the. The right guys to make it look amazing. So, yeah, I'm very happy. Speaker 1 - 27:35 Yeah, Yeah. I was just gonna say whatever crew that you're working with at this, I. I say keep them because none of this looks low budget, none of this looks low scale. They are like, I think you have a magic group of people on your team right now. So. Thank you so much. What. What single is upcoming? Speaker 2 - 28:00 Well, I was just thinking about that. Obviously I have a plan, but I was trying to put out this Morgan Wallen Santa My Boots Female Perspective derivative, which I put out on TikTok probably more than two years ago. It blew up and I. I never really thought anything of it because it was like my frst song on TikTok to do well. It's a very storyline driven song and I wrote it from a male song, from the female perspective. And then I thought maybe I should record this because I would get like hundreds of messages every day. So then I recorded it. But then you need all of these approvals. So there is. I've been going back and forth with these people for like seven months and I. It's just. It's the hardest process I've ever gone through. Speaker 2 - 28:52 So that was supposed to be my next single, so now I'm going to have to fast track something else, I think. So stay tuned if I can get approval for this cover, because who knew that you needed to go through a million people to get something approved like this? But you do. You can't just put a song out that has the same melody as someone else's. So. Yeah, waiting. Waiting on that. Speaker 1 - 29:13 Clear. Speaker 2 - 29:14 Yeah, I have to clear it. Like, I rewrote every word, but it's the melody and concept that you still have to get clearance for. And because we, my husband and I and my producer rewrote it. We are songwriters on it. So then you have to fgure out how much did you write compared to the actual songwriters and. And deal with all that. So it's a whole other thing. And so that was supposed to be next, but who knows? But I do have a. Everything else is already ready to go, so I might just slip one in there. Speaker 1 - 29:45 Okay. Okay. Whatever it is that comes next, I am. I am certain. I am certain it's going to be great because it follows the pattern, it follows the trend, and I. I can almost, you know, bet that whatever it is that you put out next is going to be great. So we'll be looking out for that. Thank you so much, Ali, for your time today. I appreciate it. We are. I think it goes without saying that we're fans here, so we're gonna keep being fans. We just keep going to keep watching your progress. But thank you so much for spending your. Your time with us. Speaker 2 - 30:21 Well, thank you so much. I. You have been truly a supporter from the beginning, so I appreciate that. And, yeah, the album's coming out probably. Well, it is coming out in March, so that'll be something to look forward to. And then there's singles from. From now until then. So to answer your other questions, there's. There's lots to come. And then the. And then the album in March. Speaker 1 - 30:45 Okay. And is there. I don't think I know this. Is there an actual name for the album just yet or. No. Speaker 2 - 30:51 Growing Up. I don't know if I actually. It's not. It's not like I need permission from anybody, but I've never really told anybody that, but it's called Growing Up. Speaker 1 - 31:06 Yeah, I sensed a bit of hesitancy there. Speaker 2 - 31:09 I'm like, okay, all good. You heard it here frst. Speaker 1 - 31:16 Oh, look at that. Thanks for giving us an exclusive. Thank you so much. But we'll keep talking for sure. And I think the next time we get to do this, I hope it's in person and we're able to track you down somewhere in the country and sit with you in person live. But thank you so much. Congratulations on all of the successes on. On showing up on all of this great playlists and Spotify, on all of the successes that you're having so far. We are. We love you. We keep supporting you. Thank you so much. Speaker 2 - 31:50 Thank you so much for the support. It honestly means so much, and I can't wait to chat again, for sure. Speaker 1 - 31:59 Absolutely. Take care and have the great rest of your day.