Efe Mike-Ifeta - 00:00 What would you tell a young Drew Brown with the wisdom of hindsight? Efe Mike-Ifeta - 00:05 Trust your gut. That whole fear thing, like, fear, like not being able to speak out on things, that fear thing has stained a lot of areas, many areas of my life. I think my gut has proven itself awesome. Like, it's. It's been good. I just don't listen to it. And so not all. I mean, I. There's been many times where I haven't listened to it because of fear or because of what people might think or because that doesn't seem like a wise choice or like where if I did trust my gut, if I did fall through, if I did ask that girl out, if I did, you know, walk away from the reckless, if I did try and do things on my own, if I did, I. Efe Mike-Ifeta - 01:00 It would have been better, or if it wasn't better, at least I would have been happy with my decision. Efe Mike-Ifeta - 01:08 Wow. Efe Mike-Ifeta - 01:08 Do you know what I'm saying? Like, if it sucks, that's okay. At least I did it the way that I thought was best. I think if you can't do it awesomely, at least do it like that where you can, at least. But you know what? I failed. That's okay. I did it my way, but I couldn't even do that. So I think, yeah, trust your gut, Jury Brown. Like, just ignore the people and trust your gut. Your gut will lead you the right way. Efe Mike-Ifeta - 01:38 From Georgian hood media, this is the Talent Next Door, A show about singers, songwriters, producers and the stories behind the music they create. Hi, I'm Ife Mikey Feder and on the show today is the award winning Canadian singer, songwriter and producer, Drew Brown. Drew Brown's story is one that's interwoven with faith, love, pain, hope, rights, activism, and a lot more. The more I chatted with Drew, the more it became apparent where the thin I hear in his music comes from. Now I say thin because Drew's music is more than just great lyrics sung over beautiful chords. Drew Brown is an experience and the feeling his sound evokes is quite hard to articulate. There is a sage quality to the man that can only come from the unique experience he has had. Efe Mike-Ifeta - 02:26 Drew and I talked about his childhood, his relationship with his mother, his entrance into the church, his discovery of music, his frst record deal, losing and fnding his faith. Drew and I also talked about the makings of Digital Love in analog times, his 2015 Juno nominated album. We also talked about Black Lives Matter and a host of other things. Our conversation was rich and deep and. And it was meaningful. I Can't wait for you all to listen. Drew, I want to welcome you to the show. This is Italian next door, and we're very excited to have you here tonight. So thank you very much, sir. Efe Mike-Ifeta - 03:03 Thank you for having me. It's truly an honor. I know people say that, but it really is truly an honor to hang out with you and have a chat. Efe Mike-Ifeta - 03:10 Awesome. Same here. I always love to start. I'd like to always kind of curate how people get to where they have gotten to. So if you would be kind enough to just take us back to the beginning as a fve year old, if you can remember that far back as a 5 year old, 10 year old kid. What was growing up like and where were the places you grew up? Efe Mike-Ifeta - 03:35 My family, like my mother and father had a pretty tumultuous relationship and so they wound up splitting when I was quite young. And so my mom and my aunt actually got a place together just outside of the Jane and Finch corridor. And so were hanging out there for most, I think, from maybe I was one or two, maybe two, until I was in grade three. And so I remember being there and music wasn't always playing, but they let me put music on as often as I wanted to. I don't think they ever said no music. I mean, maybe it was bedtime. Sure. Like if I was. If they were getting dinner ready, I would put the music on instead, let it go. And they were a very strict sort of Christian upbringing, background, family. Efe Mike-Ifeta - 04:32 So, you know, secular music was of the devil, you know. So anything that was played on, you know, mainstream radio, any kind of rock or pop or R B or blues was considered sort of, you know, not very Christ like to listen. Efe Mike-Ifeta - 04:47 I see. Yeah, yeah. Efe Mike-Ifeta - 04:49 And so it was a lot of gospel, a lot of Christian music, which is great. You know, I love gospel. I was. I'm thankful that was everybody listen to. Growing up was when I frst discovered much music. That's when my mind was blown. Efe Mike-Ifeta - 05:04 I see. Efe Mike-Ifeta - 05:05 I had a cousin who back then actually used to work at Much Music. And so he was about 10 years older than I was, I think at the time. He was. No, he was doing like lugging cables around, you know, he was just, yeah, the gopher kind of kid. And he, you know, climbed the ranks. Later on he would always say, yeah, man, check out this show. Check out this show and watch music, man. It's really cool. You're gonna love it. You're gonna love it. And it was like DJ spinning at the time. And it wasn't Master T But there was another black guy who was on there, Michael Williams, I think his name was. And he was always bringing in, like, local hip hop and local R and B. But then I would watch, like, Van Halen videos. Efe Mike-Ifeta - 05:48 Yeah, Yeah. Efe Mike-Ifeta - 05:51 I was like, how do I do that? That looks defnitely like music videos and that kind of televised music culture that was created between MTV and much music. Yes, huge infuence. And gospel music. But, yeah, that was a huge infuence. And you know what? The library was actually huge infuence. I was a latchkey kid for, I think, when I was in grade two and grade three, because, you know, everybody's hustling, right? Efe Mike-Ifeta - 06:21 So, yeah. Efe Mike-Ifeta - 06:23 And I was a pretty chill kid, very responsible. Didn't want to bug my mom or piss her off. So I was very. I was like, if she said jump, I was like, yes, ma'. Am. So I did not mess with mama. You know what I mean? And so I would ask, hey, can I go to the library and then meet you home for dinner? And she'd be like, yeah. I mean, it was. Wasn't that far away. So I was like, yeah, go ahead. And so, you know, imagine this kid in grade three walking to the library, and I would sit down at their record collection. You know, they can sit down there and listen to records. And I found, like, the Woodstock lp. And I remember between, like, three days, I listened to, like, every single song, I think, twice. Efe Mike-Ifeta - 07:01 Wow. Efe Mike-Ifeta - 07:02 And I loved, like, Jimi Hendrix. I was like, whatever. This is. Whatever. Efe Mike-Ifeta - 07:08 Whatever's happening right now, you have to have a piece of that. Efe Mike-Ifeta - 07:12 And there was another guy named Richie Havens. And I mean, everybody's coming out with these big bands, you know, and doing their thing. And he comes up with an acoustic guitar, he sits down and just delivers this powerful, like, rootsy gospel song. And I was kinda like, okay, if there's a. Like, can I do a mixture of, like, Hendrix and this guy Richie Havens? A little bit of rock, a little bit of folk. There's a little bit of, like, spacey, trippy things happening. There is this communal, almost sacred act of. I want that. Efe Mike-Ifeta - 07:47 Yeah. Efe Mike-Ifeta - 07:48 And I didn't realize that was a dream. I thought that'd be kind of cool maybe one day. I didn't realize how ingrained that moment, how much that moment was ingrained into me and actually sort of helped shape my story. Yeah. Efe Mike-Ifeta - 08:02 Wow, that's. Whoa. That's some story. Cause it's so grounded, and it's grounded, I think, in music. And of course, when you mentioned Woodst, that's just iconic for a lot of People and like, a reference point for, you know, a lot of artists. So I've been doing a little bit of digging and research on you. So I understand you moved a lot when you were much younger. Efe Mike-Ifeta - 08:31 Yeah. Efe Mike-Ifeta - 08:32 Do you want to. Do you want to tell us a little bit about that? That you lived a little bit in Belleville, in Trenton, and so just want to tell us about your mom and moving around and how that shaped your experience of the world and what you saw while you were moving? Efe Mike-Ifeta - 08:51 Yeah, yeah, for sure, man. Yeah. So my mom, you know, like, she was hustling, working all the hours, and she was sort of climbing the ladder of sort of hospital administration. She found sort of a really cool path where she was moving away from nursing in trying to sort of climb the ladder into administration roles, which she was defnitely qualifed to do. Unfortunately, that meant that she had to sort of move around Ontario quite a bit. Efe Mike-Ifeta - 09:24 Yeah. Efe Mike-Ifeta - 09:25 And so in grade three, she got a gig out in Trenton at the hospital there. And so we moved. And were there for about three years, and then we moved to Midland, Ontario, which is sort of like the southern part of Georgian Bay. Efe Mike-Ifeta - 09:40 Okay. Efe Mike-Ifeta - 09:41 Just a little bit past Barry. And so we lived there for, I think, another three years. And then I. My mom and I had a very interesting. Tumultuous is the word. You already used it once, but it's defnitely the word. We had a pretty tumultuous relationship when I was young. I was sort of becoming more independent. And as I said before, mom was very, you know, do what I say. I mean, that's a normal teenage thing, but for us, it was almost like a volcanic eruption in the house. One way out that I can fnd is that wasn't emancipation, was seeing if I get into a private college, a private school, private high school at some kind. Efe Mike-Ifeta - 10:25 Okay. Efe Mike-Ifeta - 10:26 Like a boarding school. And so I started applying and she was. She agreed to it. And so she's like, no, it's a good idea. And, you know, not that she wanted space for me, but she also thought that actually, that's actually good for you as a black man in this world. And you get to. We were living in, you know, a very white town. And so, like, I think there was only one other black family there. And so she's like, actually, even though your intentions are this, that's actually a good idea. Efe Mike-Ifeta - 10:52 Yeah. Efe Mike-Ifeta - 10:54 And so. Yeah. And so I got in to a few, and I picked one that was in Belleville because it was close to Trenton. And so I had some friends from when I was there, sort of, you know, in that space. And so I was there for about three years. It's a three year thing happening here. Efe Mike-Ifeta - 11:09 Okay. Efe Mike-Ifeta - 11:11 And then moved back home for a little bit. Our relationship was getting a lot better and. But my grades were dropping in the school, and if I didn't keep a, like an A minus average. Efe Mike-Ifeta - 11:21 You get kicked out. Efe Mike-Ifeta - 11:22 Yeah, yeah. And the reason why I started dropping was because I discovered music. Like, not just listening to music, but actually like playing. And I wanted to do that all the time. Efe Mike-Ifeta - 11:37 Yeah. Yeah. Efe Mike-Ifeta - 11:38 So I focus more on that than my studies. Efe Mike-Ifeta - 11:42 It's paid off, I guess, I suppose. Efe Mike-Ifeta - 11:46 But then moved back to Midland just for my fnal year of school, and. And that was good to be with mom and hang out there. And then from there I moved to Ottawa. And I was in Ottawa for a long time. Efe Mike-Ifeta - 11:58 That's interesting. So like I said, I try in my head to map out, I think, geography and connections, relationships. And the people we meet as we proceed through life, they kind of shape unintentionally or intentionally, who we become. And so that's why I asked us, you know, just from listening to you. I'm gonna read. I'm gonna read. I'm gonna circle back to the rock side of your music and love writing and all of that. But you're very big on faith, aren't you? Efe Mike-Ifeta - 12:38 Yeah, faith. I mean, my dad was a pastor, and so that had something to do with it. Maybe. My mom is. Efe Mike-Ifeta - 12:43 Oh, really? Efe Mike-Ifeta - 12:44 My mom is a pretty strong Christian woman. Like, she is the stereotypical. I shouldn't say that sounds mean, but. No, she is. She really is the. Have you ever seen, like, the stereotypical black woman in church on tv? That's my mom, you know, like, yes, Lord, that's. And then. And then for a season, I actually went to pastoral work. I actually worked in a church for almost 10 years. Efe Mike-Ifeta - 13:10 Really? And was this just because you were obligated to do it because of your upbringing or you actually. You actually dug it at the time you loved it? Efe Mike-Ifeta - 13:20 That's. That's a good question. A part of it was when I started going back to church. This would have been like midway through university or something, I guess. I hated it. I hated church. And one of the big reasons was the music sucked. It was horrible. Efe Mike-Ifeta - 13:38 And so that's terribly honest. Efe Mike-Ifeta - 13:44 Like, I remember. I remember leaving church, leaving. Not leaving one, because I stopped going because I moved away and whatever. But I remember leaving church on grade 8 and coming back when I was, you know, like whatever, maybe 20 or whatever it was, and going, nothing has changed. It's the same garbage. The heart's in the right place, you know, But, I mean, we can do more than this. And so I was like, I wonder if I can play a role in church music, Sacred music, changing a bit. I wonder if I can be a part of that. What I didn't know is that over in the uk, it's already been happening. There are amazing acts and bands who are coming out, who are doing their thing. That was so good. They would actually open up for, like, the mainstream bands. Efe Mike-Ifeta - 14:33 Like, so imagine, like, a church band opening up for. You know, like, they were doing really well out. Efe Mike-Ifeta - 14:37 Yeah, yeah. Efe Mike-Ifeta - 14:38 But here in North America, there was. We had nothing. Efe Mike-Ifeta - 14:42 I see. Efe Mike-Ifeta - 14:43 So and so I started doing that sort of. Sort of helping churches get better musically. Efe Mike-Ifeta - 14:49 Just a quick cut. Did you get pushback on that? Because I know that, you know, in terms of trying to shift that paradigm, I remember how much controversy there was, some that was around somebody like Kirk Franklin. So did you get pushback when you. When you stepped in trying to do all of this great things? Efe Mike-Ifeta - 15:06 Oh, my goodness, yes. It was. Yeah, completely. And they. Some of the pastors or even the music directors at the time, some of them are kind of like, we need this. Like, we. Like. I remember playing, man, I was showing them not just rock stuff, but even, like, there was a gospel band called Commissioned. It was like Fred Hammond and three other guys. Efe Mike-Ifeta - 15:32 Yeah, yeah. Efe Mike-Ifeta - 15:33 Playing, like, Listen to the harmony. Listen to what they're doing. Listen to. Okay. So, like, this is actually something we can do or emulate or borrow or steal. Yeah. Kirk Franklin, what he was doing, like, there's really cool things happening. I think we can, you know, sort of borrow a few of these ideas. And, yeah, the pushback was strong and mighty. But what really helped was at every church, they noticed that, oh, wait a minute, there's young people showing up now. Efe Mike-Ifeta - 16:03 Yeah, yeah, I think that. Yeah. Yes, yes, Go ahead. Efe Mike-Ifeta - 16:07 So, like. Oh, okay. Okay. So, okay. And then some of those UK bands started getting really big out here in North America. And that's when I was like, okay. Because the guitar player, like, I was. Especially in my rock days, I was huge into, like, YouTube huge. And so, like, lots of delay and reverb and I love that kind of vibe and very ambient and atmospheric. And for me, it was very soothing to my soul. Like, even their protest songs, for some reason, just brought the sense of, like, I can sort of rest in this moment. Yeah, for sure. That felt like worship music to me in a way, in a very strange way. And so that was my style. Efe Mike-Ifeta - 16:46 I was either doing, like, RB gospel chops, or I was doing, like, these kind of, like, U2 inspired riffs or a blend of the two. And so when these bands started coming over to North America, I was like, oh, you see? Efe Mike-Ifeta - 16:59 Yeah, yeah. That's what I've been trying to. That's what I'm trying to tell you guys. Efe Mike-Ifeta - 17:02 Totally. So that helped a lot. And many churches kind of got the hint and the point. And so I moved from doing kind of volunteer role music stuff to actually being a worship or music pastor, in which I would sort of care for my team and for the church using the arts, which is kind of my thing. And then I would move into, like, different pastoral roles, community pastor or whatever. But, yeah, it was something I just thought that. I just thought that maybe the church can do better at, because the church, historically, the church is always on the front line of the coolest, newest thing. They're always doing, like, fresh art all the time. Efe Mike-Ifeta - 17:48 I see. Efe Mike-Ifeta - 17:49 And then for some reason, come to, like, the 1900s, not so much. So. Not that I was doing anything fresh, but I just want to sort of freshen up things a little bit. Efe Mike-Ifeta - 18:01 I'm gonna come back to the church because I think, and I've told you this before, that, you know, I just. It almost feels like an experience listening to your. To your sound and to your music. Efe Mike-Ifeta - 18:13 And what you create. Efe Mike-Ifeta - 18:15 So I'm gonna circle back there, but I want you to think just. Just take me through that journey of when you eventually decided to say, okay, you know, I'm gonna be a recording artist, and I'm gonna give this all it needs, and I'm gonna go for it. If there was a moment. There was a moment. It was. Efe Mike-Ifeta - 18:35 There was. It was something that I never really thought I would actually do. Like, I was in some bands and we toured for a bit, and now I was making music and recording it. And I was at home, you know, selling CDs at the back of my car, like every other artist does when they're starting off. But I always fgured, oh, yeah, it's gonna be my side gig, because music in Canada. And so I never really took it that seriously until I started writing songs more intentionally. And as I was sharing these songs with friends or with acquaintances in the industry, all of them begin, sort of lean in and be like, wait, what are you. What are you doing with this music? Are you making an album? Like, oh, yeah, probably should. You probably should do something. And so. But again, there's. Efe Mike-Ifeta - 19:28 In terms of Christian music or whatever, there's no real infrastructure here in Canada, so it's not like you. Efe Mike-Ifeta - 19:34 Were you ever tempted to move to the States to do this? Efe Mike-Ifeta - 19:37 Yes, I was. Many, many times. Many times. Efe Mike-Ifeta - 19:40 Are you serious? Because I just spoke to. I'm sorry to come in here. I just spoke to another Brill artist out of Toronto, a female artist, actually, and she is moving to the States. Efe Mike-Ifeta - 19:52 I mean, honestly, that's where the gigs are. There's way more opportunities in America for musicians in which they can, you know, make money. And that is extremely hard here in Canada. Extremely hard. Like, I have friends who are in some pretty big touring bands who are struggling. I'm not talking about COVID I mean, just in general. Yeah, Yeah. I. But. But even when I was making these songs, I don't know, like, I was like. I was like, I don't know, like, what's gonna happen with these songs? You know? And so I had a job and, you know, I think I was married for a year at this point in time and decided to sort of take three or four of the songs and put it on a CD and did the same thing. Kind of just sort of my. Back of my car, whatever. Efe Mike-Ifeta - 20:44 And also radio station started picking it up. I was like, oh, okay. And then college station started picking it up. Like, whoop. Efe Mike-Ifeta - 20:50 And just. Just. Just like that. Or did you have to do some groundwork? Efe Mike-Ifeta - 20:55 No, I mean, with one station, I did. And then because there's a station up in Bay Area, started playing my songs. And. And I think because they played it, other stations started playing it. The college stuff. I just was doing some university shows, you know, shows, and kids would just buy. My kids are the same age as me. They would buy, you know, my cd, and for some reason, it fltered through to the right people. Efe Mike-Ifeta - 21:19 Okay. And. And. And just put. Put the time period in this. This was around what. Efe Mike-Ifeta - 21:24 This would have been around 2,000, three or four. Efe Mike-Ifeta - 21:28 Okay. Okay. Efe Mike-Ifeta - 21:30 So. A million years ago. Yeah. And so I was like, oh, that's cool. That's cool that people are liking this, and it's getting played. That's great. And then one day, I got a call from this. He's like a Christian artist, and he was doing a tour in Canada, and he wanted me to play guitar for. Efe Mike-Ifeta - 21:54 Him. Efe Mike-Ifeta - 21:56 But the only way I can do it is if I quit my job. And if I quit my job. It's one of those things where if you quit, then you guys start back at the bottom in terms of, like. What's the word I'm looking for? Priority? Or. Efe Mike-Ifeta - 22:08 Yeah. Efe Mike-Ifeta - 22:11 And, I mean, I talked to everybody. I was, like, talking to my mom, my wife. Efe Mike-Ifeta - 22:15 And what job was this at the time? Efe Mike-Ifeta - 22:17 Oh, I was working at the school board. They hired a bunch of people to kind of be the in between, sort of guard, between, like, staff, like principal, vice principal, the police. Efe Mike-Ifeta - 22:30 Okay. Efe Mike-Ifeta - 22:30 Because the. The police coming on campus wasn't working kind of like, okay, so what's our next step? And so they hired people who a, could handle themselves with a bunch of crazy kids, but also who can just kind of get in their lives a little bit, who actually had some emotional bandwidth to not be a peer, but defnitely create that safe space if they need it. Efe Mike-Ifeta - 22:58 Okay. Efe Mike-Ifeta - 22:58 It was a great experiment. I don't know whether it's still going on, but it was. Efe Mike-Ifeta - 23:02 You thought it worked at the time. Efe Mike-Ifeta - 23:03 Oh, my goodness. Like, some of those kids are still, like. Like, they still contact me. Efe Mike-Ifeta - 23:09 Wow. Efe Mike-Ifeta - 23:09 If anything big happens in their life, they like. Mr. Brown. Mr. Brown. Oh, man. You don't believe. I'm like, what? Efe Mike-Ifeta - 23:16 Yeah, yeah. Efe Mike-Ifeta - 23:17 So it's. Yeah, it was. It was a really good. Really good experiment. So I. Yeah, I did. I was working there, and I had to make the choice between whether we're gonna go on tour for this or just sort of stick and stay and be an adult and talk to my wife at the time. And we're like, yeah, let's just do this. And maybe this could be the start of you focusing on music. Let's see. Efe Mike-Ifeta - 23:46 Yeah. Efe Mike-Ifeta - 23:48 And it was a good choice. I got signed to, like, a Canadian record label about a year after that, and then was touring the country up until 2009, I think, or 10. Efe Mike-Ifeta - 24:03 And how was that experience? Like, was it all that you had hoped it would be? Efe Mike-Ifeta - 24:11 The music part, yes. The business part? No. Without going into too many details. Yeah. Working with a record label wasn't necessarily the best option for me. It defnitely afforded me a few really cool things, and there's a great community there. I made some friends there that I'm still friends with. I learned a lot for sure, both positive and negative learnings. Mm. But my gut was saying, dude, you can do this on your own. Just do it on your own. And I should have. I would have saved a lot of. Efe Mike-Ifeta - 24:54 Money if you had started on that path a lot earlier. Efe Mike-Ifeta - 24:58 Yeah. And on my own. Yeah. Efe Mike-Ifeta - 25:00 Yeah. Efe Mike-Ifeta - 25:01 Instead of signing on with the label. Efe Mike-Ifeta - 25:03 It's interesting, though. Like, it's. It's almost that kind of thing in life where you. You know, just because of the template that has been set, it feels like that's the Next logical step for an artist. And then people get it. And then you say, okay, no, it's not all I, you know, thought it was gonna be. Efe Mike-Ifeta - 25:23 Because the way how most labels, not all labels, but most labels are set up, is that everything, they will pay for everything up front, which is like, thank you very much. And so if you wind up spending 20 grand on your record and then, you know, another 10 grand on merch and then, you know, you're. Maybe you're paying for a radio support. Maybe you're also. Now you're 30 grand. The whole. Okay, now let's go out and play some gigs. Every dime you make goes back to. Yeah, pay that off. And then when that's paid off, then you're still like splitting the money. Maybe it's 50, maybe it's whatever. I don't know. Depending on what you do. And so when you begin, unless you have a huge hit. Yeah, you're just living in poverty. Not really. Okay, I'm exaggerating. But it's hard fnancial. Efe Mike-Ifeta - 26:16 It's really hard. So if I could do it over again, I would still sign with that label, but I would have recorded the album on my own dimension and then only use them for like touring support, which is really all I needed. And booking, you know, booking shows and stuff. Efe Mike-Ifeta - 26:34 Yeah. Efe Mike-Ifeta - 26:34 Because I would have made the album for like a quarter of the price. Efe Mike-Ifeta - 26:38 Yeah, yeah, I hear you. I don't know if you know Ryan Leslie R. Less. No. He's been making this argument for the longest time and you know, around what. Cause they put out an album and it did really well and think he switched over to doing rap. But anyways, the point here is that he has been making this argument for the longest time about, you know, about. He has this model of actually targeting your core audience. He calls them, you know, you have a thousand people, ten thousand people who you're able to directly communicate with. And if those 10,000 people buy your, you know, CD so you don't have to split those, that revenue is. You will get paid. Efe Mike-Ifeta - 27:22 That's right. Efe Mike-Ifeta - 27:23 You will make a living off of it, you know, and you don't need to have, you know, a Grammy award. You don't need to have all the distribution. You just need to have your core audience that you are, you know, just feeding non stop. He's been making that argument for a long time. So I hear you on that one. Efe Mike-Ifeta - 27:42 Yeah, yeah. What do they call it? The 1000 or the 10,000 truth fans. If you have Those true fans, then you'll be fne. Efe Mike-Ifeta - 27:56 And if you just joined us, we're still talking to the award winning Canadian singer, songwriter and producer, Drew Brown. I want to just backtrack a little bit and talk about your Juno nominated album, Analog Love in Digital Times 2015. How did that all start? And were you expecting such a reception of that body of work you put together? Efe Mike-Ifeta - 28:31 No. Efe Mike-Ifeta - 28:33 So it came as a surprise to you? Efe Mike-Ifeta - 28:35 It did. And I, when I was with the label, I was defnitely moving into. Let me take that back. Christian music, like most music, like most genres, it's all about the Persona, right? And so the more of a super Christian that you are, the more validity you have to your brand as a Christian artist. So don't drink, don't smoke, don't cuss, don't. Okay, so I do all three of those things, right? And I don't smoke. But. And I'm not. For me, there's a part of me, it's kind of like I want to be real and honest. I don't want to fake it. I'm not saying go get drunk every night. I'm not doing that. You know, that's not my vibe. Maybe some people's vibe, that's not my vibe. Efe Mike-Ifeta - 29:35 You know, I'm not cussing every second word, but sometimes if I drop a brick in my toe, I might lay down some bombs, if you know what I'm saying, you know, and so for me, these aren't like religious like, you know, wires I can't cross. It's just, it's a part of my story, part of my life. And like anything I have in my life, I treat it very seriously and carefully. Right. And so that album for me was kind of like, oh man. Like I was really speaking about things in my life that I didn't was concerned about talking about. Not that I was saying anything like scandalous or anything like that. And so, yeah, I did not. It was way more introspective and much more of journal entries and it was less Christian. I didn't. Efe Mike-Ifeta - 30:34 Every song didn't end with that Jesus bow saying, and don't worry, he'll all be okay. Because Jesus. I mean, sometimes it ended with things suck and they'll suck tomorrow. Deal. You know, because I mean, that feels real. That's just, that's the life that I was living is like, everything sucks. That's okay. You'll suck more tomorrow. Enjoy today. Efe Mike-Ifeta - 30:58 Yeah, yeah. Efe Mike-Ifeta - 30:59 And that's okay. That's not, it's not Like a depressing thing. It's not like, even, like an Eeyore. Like, oh. It's just. That's just. That's life. Good things will come, don't worry. But you'll get bad days, too. And so, yeah, like, when I put that album out, it's a bunch of love songs, too, which doesn't usually happen in the Christian world at all. Yeah, romantic songs and even songs that are about, you know, love. That's not working, especially when you're in a marriage. And so I'm like. Like, that's something that you normally wouldn't sing about in a Christian album. Like, oh. And so it was interesting how that album really connected with people. And the response I got was like, this feels so real and authentic and raw. And this is my story. This was my story. This. Efe Mike-Ifeta - 31:55 Like, people really grabbed a hold of that, which is cool. I just didn't think people would actually. I thought it'd be the opposite. I thought, oh, you didn't make any reference to Jesus, like, once. Dude, are you still Christian? Efe Mike-Ifeta - 32:16 Yeah. Efe Mike-Ifeta - 32:16 So, yeah, it was a fun album to do, and it was great to walk that Juno carpet and enjoy the night. It was great. Efe Mike-Ifeta - 32:30 I can only imagine that must have been thrilling for you. Efe Mike-Ifeta - 32:33 Yeah, yeah, it really was. It was good. Efe Mike-Ifeta - 32:38 Okay, so I want to talk about all of the other things that you do. So you produce and hymns for the Architect. Like, how do you fnd time? First of all, I just want to tell me what that expression is and how you started that other whole thing with producing music under that other. I wouldn't say it's a moniker, but just under that name. But why did you feel the need to have that other side expressing? Probably a different. Slightly different kind of music? Yeah. Efe Mike-Ifeta - 33:14 Yeah. I've been working on, you know, some new music for a while, and some of it just didn't feel right to put out, or I wasn't ready, or the songs just weren't ready, or. And there's a lot of stuff, like, happening in my personal life, just mental health stuff and just a lot of ups and, you know, the ups and downs of life, but sometimes the downs were a lot deeper and longer. And so I wanted to write music to kind of be soothing to my own soul. And so I started leaning heavily more into, like, ambient electronic expressions, which I've done some of that. There's defnitely some hints of that in my earlier work, but I wanted to be completely instrumental. Efe Mike-Ifeta - 34:03 And so I just walk around my neighborhood sometimes in the mornings or late at night and just try and sing some melodies. And every once in a while, you bump into someone, you start talking, you know, like, it's weird to sort of fnd people out at midnight. And so when you do, either you kind of go, like. And you try to stay away, or you wind up striking conversations, kind of like, what are you doing jogging at midnight? And so, you know, it's like a couple. Some conversations, and you hear some stories, and you fnd, like, those. This was. I don't know. I'm sure you've experienced it before, where when you hear someone else's story and it totally intersects with yours, and you're like, oh, my gosh, I totally get you, man. Efe Mike-Ifeta - 34:48 Yeah. Efe Mike-Ifeta - 34:49 And so stuff like that would happen on the regular. I'll say, okay. So in order to get out of my own head, what would be a soothing song for their story? What would be the feel and the vibe that they would need to hear or that I think they would help them anyway? And so I'd start sort of singing out these melodies and plucking them on a piano and guitar, and I'll sort of jot them down. And then one day I realized, oh, my gosh, I have, like, 20 songs. Maybe I should do something with this stuff. Efe Mike-Ifeta - 35:23 Yeah. Efe Mike-Ifeta - 35:24 And in a span of, like, three weeks, I think I recorded everything. But I will say this. When I frst started Hymns for the Architect, it was completely different. Efe Mike-Ifeta - 35:41 Okay. Efe Mike-Ifeta - 35:42 I was. I went through a season where I totally lost my faith. I didn't know whether I believed in anything anymore. Efe Mike-Ifeta - 35:50 And can I just ask why? What got you there? Efe Mike-Ifeta - 35:55 There's a bunch of things. And the list goes on. Like, this is a bunch of things that kind of just like, put me into the state of doubt and questioning. And at some point, I came to this almost like this inception moment, you know, where it was planted in my head. Like, I don't know if I believe in this. I do believe that something created something, you know, And I think that there was something out there. And so that scared me a lot and scared my family and scared my friends and scared the church that I was serving at the time in which I had to leave and scared a lot of people in my circles. Efe Mike-Ifeta - 36:38 Yeah, because you had, like, you had such an identity that you were. That had started to confict with who you were in the present. Efe Mike-Ifeta - 36:48 Right. Efe Mike-Ifeta - 36:48 And all the things that you were thinking about. That's kind of scary. Efe Mike-Ifeta - 36:52 Yeah, it was. It was frightening. It was. I was. I was terrifed, and I didn't know what to do with this. And at the. At the time, there wasn't a whole lot of resources that I can, you know, use or look to or read or listen to or. There is now tons now, but at the time, there wasn't a whole lot. And so I started as a form of therapy. I started writing worship songs. Songs for the church, but from the viewpoint of someone who is deep into doubt. So it's songs that are questioning God, not questioning God as in, like, who do you think you are? Not like that, but defnitely much like David did in the Psalms, kind of like, are you even there, man? And if you are, do something, bruh. Efe Mike-Ifeta - 37:44 Yeah, for sure. Efe Mike-Ifeta - 37:45 Like, change something. Efe Mike-Ifeta - 37:47 Move. Efe Mike-Ifeta - 37:48 Like, you got the skills, got the power. Why don't you do something? And so it was just based around that and based around. Yeah. How would someone who lost their faith but still wants to be connected to the practices. What can I use? What can I have? How can I. What kind of resources, songs or poetry or whatever, can I read or sing that will help me maybe rediscover my faith? And so I started writing stuff around that, and it was based all around the church calendar. So, like, Easter, Christmas. Efe Mike-Ifeta - 38:33 Okay. Efe Mike-Ifeta - 38:34 I think I have another one coming out for, like, smaller, like, non church, like Thanksgiving or whatever. But then I was like, I'm sick of my own voice, and I have a lot of weight on me. I want to fnd a new expression. And so that's where the instrumental album Solace from Solitude came from. Just, you know, walking around the neighborhood, hearing people's stories that remember reminded me of my story and trying to write songs that help soothe my soul and maybe would help soothe theirs. Yeah. Efe Mike-Ifeta - 39:09 Yeah, it did. I just couldn't. Like, the day after you came on the open mic, I listened to that, and I just. It was such an experience listening to it with a headphone, and it just. It was so powerful to listen to. So, yeah, just. That's the impression I got from it. It was really powerful. Where are you at right now? Where do you. Where are you at? Efe Mike-Ifeta - 39:41 I still have a lot of doubt. My faith defnitely isn't where it was. It's defnitely different. It shifted, for sure. Efe Mike-Ifeta - 39:50 If I could just pause, would you call that doubt more like curiosity? Efe Mike-Ifeta - 39:56 Good question. Good question. Oh, my gosh. I like that, man. I like that a lot. Efe Mike-Ifeta - 40:08 I tend to phrase this kind of conversations in a different way. I don't necessarily think it's doubt. I think it's just a deep desire and hunger to have answers to questions, because sometimes it does suck. Efe Mike-Ifeta - 40:25 Mm. Efe Mike-Ifeta - 40:26 And it all comes apart, and you are there you know. You know, left for broke with just your hands out in the open and the rains falling against your face, and you're in the storm and you can't, you know, you don't know what the next move is gonna be. So I think being, you know, being curious and saying, hey, you know, this is all that I've been told about you. Why aren't you doing what you're, you know, you desire to do? Efe Mike-Ifeta - 40:54 Yeah, I think curiosity is. That's amazing. I think I like that word a lot. I might steal that from you. Yeah, that's a great way of redefning that. You know, it's. You know, people throw around the words like faith, deconstruction a lot and. Because you're sort of ripping apart your faith and sort of, you know, fguring out what you want to keep or what you don't believe in or what you need to be more curious about. And so I think. Yeah, I think swapping out doubts for curious curiosity is defnitely. That's. Yeah, I like that a lot. Efe Mike-Ifeta - 41:37 Okay, tell us a bit about your discography at this point and what you're working on currently and what we should be expecting from you, either as Drew Brown or as hfta. Efe Mike-Ifeta - 41:53 Yeah, baby. Yeah. So I'm hoping to release a Drew Brown EP at some point this year. We will see. I'm in the middle of a creative dry spell right now, and so. Which is fne. It happens. But, like, nothing is really coming out, and so I'm just making notes. I'm still trying to do the daily work, just because you never know what might happen. But, yeah, so that's been interesting. So hopefully an EP at some point in time here in 2020. And then a couple of hymns for the Architect songs will be released probably in the fall. I think they're almost done in terms of recording and mixing. Efe Mike-Ifeta - 42:35 Okay. Efe Mike-Ifeta - 42:35 And then a full project in January of 2021, which will be like. Well, it'd be an EP. And I think what I'm. What I'm trying to do is do an EP a month, whether it's three songs or four songs or fve or. But try and do something really simple, really bare bones. And just. And mostly, to be honest, it's mostly to force me to put music out, because if I say that I need to put out an album or a project every month. Efe Mike-Ifeta - 43:12 Yeah. Efe Mike-Ifeta - 43:13 Now I have to. Right. Or else I look an idiot. It's mostly to kind of get my butt in gear, which. Which, at this point, whatever works, I'll take. But in terms of my. My previous discography. My frst album came out in. I think it was 2006 or 7. It was called From a Whisper to a Roar. And that was my frst. My frst album full. My frst full length album. And that was on a. On a label release and that was good. I brought my buddies in to play on it and it was a fun experience. It was. I have stories upon stories of how everything went wrong through the whole entire session. It was so bad I was crying most nights. But yeah, it's just. It was a. Efe Mike-Ifeta - 44:11 For me, it was a very fresh sounding record and it's done me well for the last few years. People are really still engaging with it. Efe Mike-Ifeta - 44:19 Okay. Efe Mike-Ifeta - 44:19 And then after that was 2005. No, 2000, I can't remember. Analog Love and Digital Times came out in 2015. I don't know why I said 2005. That's cool. And yeah, there's. And the reason why there was a gap. Such a big gap. Efe Mike-Ifeta - 44:38 Yes. Close to 10 years or even more. Efe Mike-Ifeta - 44:41 They call me the Christian Peter Gabriel because he does like an album every 10 years really leaned heavily into church world. And so I would still do gigs but like making music just wasn't a priority at the time. But then I realized not making it a priority was actually killing me. I didn't realize how important it actually is for my soul. So that was. That kind of started the process for the new album. Yeah. So just those two records and hopefully. Oh no, sorry, that's a lie. And then Hymns. The Architect has three albums in total. There's an EP called the Wilderness and that's based around the Christian calendar season of Lent and Easter. Efe Mike-Ifeta - 45:35 Okay. Efe Mike-Ifeta - 45:36 And then I did one another full length album called X and that's around Christmas and Advent. Efe Mike-Ifeta - 45:43 Okay. Efe Mike-Ifeta - 45:44 And that was really cool. And that won a couple of awards. What I liked about it is I brought in people of like diverse voices. So there's a couple. My queer friends are on it. People, color pastors, people who lost their faith, people of a different faith. And it just. I just had them like read or had them write prayers. Like what. What do you really need right now in this season? What kind of hope do you need? What kind of, you know, if you don't believe in God, but if there was a God, what would you ask of him or her? And so that really sparked tons of great conversations. And then they wrote these pieces and now set music to it. And then in between those pieces I would do Christmas songs or some instrumentals as well. Efe Mike-Ifeta - 46:40 I see. No, that's fantastic. And so two questions here. What would be. Is there like a favorite. Favorite record you've made to you that was just. It just embodied all you wanted to capture in a song? Efe Mike-Ifeta - 46:56 Favorite? Yeah, I think probably. I think it might be Solace and Solitude. Efe Mike-Ifeta - 47:10 Oh, really? Efe Mike-Ifeta - 47:11 Yeah, Like, I. I think Analog Love and Digital Times is probably the album that represents me the most. If you want to get to know me, listen to that album and you'll probably be. Yeah, it's. That's my story in songs. But. But even me. And you might have heard this before from artists where after a while they can't listen to their own music. Efe Mike-Ifeta - 47:35 Happens all the time. Efe Mike-Ifeta - 47:37 But with. With. With Solace, I can. And it still works. Like, I can still put it on and be like, I don't sit there and get totally focused on all the details. Oh, I missed this part. Oh, couldn't mix that better. No, I can just listen to it as like a listener and just let the vibe and the emotions and just let it all wash over me and sort of sit in that space. And so I think because of that, because I can create some distance to it and not sort of overthink it when I listen. I think that must be. That's a good sign, I think, maybe. Efe Mike-Ifeta - 48:17 Was there any pressure on the kind or the sound of music you created? Was there any pressure to say, hey, man, what, like, what are you doing? Sounding rock and indie type. Rock type, you know, this isn't black enough. Efe Mike-Ifeta - 48:34 Yeah, yeah, totally. I got pressure on both sides. I got pressure on kind of like, dude, you're black, man. And I got pressure from, you know, from sort of the white leaders in my sort of space to kind of make sure I was. Stayed close to the sound. Because even what I did wasn't really the standard ccm, which is. CCM stands for contemporary Christian music. And there's defnitely a tight box in which what fts in that box and radio will only. A Christian radio will only promote that. Most tours were only focused in music in that genre. And so I had to sort of lean towards that. And I wasn't making music in that box. It was still sort of out there in like, indie, whatever world. And so I got. I got angry people on both sides. Efe Mike-Ifeta - 49:30 And for me, the reason why is. And actually, you'll see my. The next ep, if I ever fnish it. It's defnitely a lot more urban. It's a lot more urban and soulful, but still like acoustic guitar and piano just with a lot of beats and urban infuences. Efe Mike-Ifeta - 49:51 Okay. Efe Mike-Ifeta - 49:52 But the Reason why I did that is because I wish there was more people of my shade of brown playing with guitars and rocking out. Mm. Like, there was just. I mean, yes. There's, like, Living Color, amazing rock band, Bad Brains. Hendrix. Is that. It's like Gary. Oh, shit. What's his name? Gary Cole. I can't remember his name now. He's won the Grammy for Best rock song last year. There's tons of great black artists playing guitar. Efe Mike-Ifeta - 50:25 Yeah. Even Lenny Kravitz. Like, his. His. Efe Mike-Ifeta - 50:28 That's right. I want more. I just want more. I want more of that. I want more of that. I want more of, like, acoustic and electric guitar stuff. I want more. I want more rock sounds. But. But people who look like me. And so I'm like, okay, I'll do that. And again, like, going back to, you know, the Woodstock thing, the two. Those two artists that blew my mind was, like, Hendrix. You know what I mean? And. And Richie Havens. Yeah. And they were both black guys playing guitar. Efe Mike-Ifeta - 51:03 Absolutely. Efe Mike-Ifeta - 51:04 It wasn't soulful. It was like. Yeah. You know, it was like, in your face. And so I was like, yeah, I want more. More of that. Efe Mike-Ifeta - 51:12 No, but you could just see how heavily infuenced they were on you and how that genre of music, which I think it just speaks volume of. I don't know of who you are. And even when you say for a long time, you. You know, you kept your opinions to yourself, I think just making music that would not necessarily align with how people view, you know, who you are meant to be as a black man and the black culture. I think that in itself is a lot of opinion packed into. Into music and using that as a. An expression. That's how I feel. Yeah. Efe Mike-Ifeta - 51:53 Yeah, you're right. You're totally right. Efe Mike-Ifeta - 51:55 So even when you kept, you know, being vocal on some issues, you were actually speaking the loudest with your music and saying, this is how I'm gonna do it. Efe Mike-Ifeta - 52:03 Yeah, you're exactly right. Completely. Efe Mike-Ifeta - 52:07 What would you. What would you tell a young Drew Brown with. With the wisdom of hindsight? Efe Mike-Ifeta - 52:13 Trust your gut. That whole fear thing, like, fear, like, not being able to speak out on things, that fear thing has stained a lot of areas, many areas of my life. Mm. I think my gut has proven itself awesome. Like, it's. It's been good. I just don't listen to it. And so not all. I mean, I. There's been many times where I haven't listened to it because of fear or because of what people might think or because that doesn't seem like a wise choice or, like, where. If I did trust my gut, if I did follow through, if I did ask that girl out, if I did, you know, walk away from the rec, if I did try and do things on my own, if I did, I. Efe Mike-Ifeta - 53:08 It would have been better, or if it wasn't better, at least I would have been happy with my decision. Efe Mike-Ifeta - 53:16 Wow. Efe Mike-Ifeta - 53:16 Do you know what I'm saying? Efe Mike-Ifeta - 53:17 Wow. Efe Mike-Ifeta - 53:18 Like, if it sucks, that's okay. But at least I did it the way that I thought was best. I think if you can't do it awesomely, at least do it like that where you can at least. But you know what? I failed. That's okay if I did it my way, but I could even do that. So I think. I think, yeah. Trust your gut, Drew Brown. Like, just ignore the people and trust your gut. Your gut will lead you the right way. Oh, my. Efe Mike-Ifeta - 53:46 That's. That's very well articulated, Drew. And it resonates. It resonates. Okay, looking forward, what. What. What are we, you know, besides the music you've told me and all the. All about the music projects you're working on, but where we're headed with this? Are you gonna keep recording music? Is there anywhere else to go with all of this? And just what are your plans going forward? Efe Mike-Ifeta - 54:22 Yeah, I've been thinking a lot. I went through a pretty big, like, I moved into a new place, and there's a lot of newness happening, tons of newness happening right now in the season I'm in, which is wonderful. I love change. I think it's fun and it's exciting. And so I've been like, okay, so what do I want to do differently or what kind of new things I want to dive into? And even with everything that's been happening with Black Lives Matter, and I feel that there's more my voice that I want. Want to use apart from just music or social media posts. And so I'm in processing, making more art based around anti racism and diversity equity, making resources for the church, prayers or songs. They're based around these ideas. Efe Mike-Ifeta - 55:21 Yeah. Efe Mike-Ifeta - 55:23 And just really going heavy into engaging people online because, you know, pandemic. Just engaging people online with these. These ideas and these movements. And I actually took most of July off of social media. I haven't really been on. I haven't really been using it. I think I posted, like, maybe four things all month. When I say posted, I mean, like, all my stories. I think I only made, like, one post on my actual feed. Efe Mike-Ifeta - 55:52 Yeah, that stuff could get tiring at some point. Efe Mike-Ifeta - 55:55 This is the thing. And I'm like, okay, so I just want, I think I want to create something that'll hopefully inspire people. I just don't want to like duplicate what's happening on the news or like, you know, repost what's happening on the news or I want to be like, okay, so how can we make people move towards change, move towards equality, move towards thinking of all these things in a different way, in a more healthy way? How can we move people into doing the work of anti racism on their own? And I don't think I have a book in me, but I would love to do like micro blogs or poetry or songs or prayers or something like that to kind of help people kind of move towards that. Efe Mike-Ifeta - 56:46 Yeah, I think faith bleeds into social justice for you. Which comes frst? Does faith feed your need to have social justice be. What's the word now? Not necessarily enforced, but to have that equity across board? Again, this is a direct reference to the Black Lives Matter movement I have seen in the last little while. You being very vocal. Efe Mike-Ifeta - 57:19 My faith defnitely informs my, my yearning for justice for sure. That's, yeah, that's a huge part. I believe that as Christians, so that's sort of my faith background, that serving the needs of the people around us, especially when it comes to disenfranchised those on the fringes, the poor and the needy, the widows and the orphans, I think that is something that we are called to do. And in this case, when you see injustice happening, when you see injustices happening and no one's doing anything about it, I feel you need to. And the thing is, this is nothing new. We've been seeing this for decades upon decades. But even for me, it's kind of like, well, what are you gonna do? That's the way the world works. And I think, thankfully we've come to a place where, okay, well, that's enough. We're done with this. Efe Mike-Ifeta - 58:29 The way the world works isn't working anymore. We're done. Actually, it's never really worked. Well, I mean, it's worked for some people, but just for people color in any way, shape or form. And so I, I am trying to fnd ways in which I can make connections within my spiritual community, which is extremely hard because for years if I wanted to talk about like anti racism within the church, I'd get laughed at or kicked. Not kicked out, but defnitely like shown the door. We don't have that kind of problem here. We are a multicultural church. We see everybody's equal but this is. Efe Mike-Ifeta - 59:12 From white leadership, I suppose. Efe Mike-Ifeta - 59:14 Exactly. Efe Mike-Ifeta - 59:15 Yeah. So, okay. Efe Mike-Ifeta - 59:16 And I'm like, do you though really? And not even like, for me, it's not even a judgment call saying that everybody's racist. I'm not even saying that. But imagine the good it would do if we actually had some of these conversations, if we actually began doing this work. Because I think that would open up the eyes of the leadership, but also the people. You know, who knows who's sitting in those pews, you know, on Sunday after Sunday. I think MLK said that Sunday hour is the most segregated hour in America. Efe Mike-Ifeta - 59:53 In America. Yeah. Efe Mike-Ifeta - 59:55 So I think like, even though. Yeah. We're sitting side by side. Sure. In our hearts and our souls, I think that still rings true in a very deep and dark way. So how do. For me, it's like, okay, so how can I best infuence in a positive way? How can I bring about change? How can I inspire people to do more or at least to listen more, to read more? How can I invite people of faith into having these kinds of discussions, open handed and open hearted discussions about how we treat each other, how we treat our neighbors, how we love our neighbors? I think that is a huge thing. That's always been a huge part of me, but now it's now just a little bit more. Efe Mike-Ifeta - 01:00:38 What progress has been made of having this conversation. Efe Mike-Ifeta - 01:00:42 You. Efe Mike-Ifeta - 01:00:43 Where are we at? Efe Mike-Ifeta - 01:00:44 I think in a national sort of broader view, broader stance. I think we're at a place now where people are talking about it. It's in people's minds a lot more. They seem willing, generally speaking, to have those conversations, even on a political level. I think we are seeing how this nation has poorly treated our frst nation siblings and now we feel the weight of that and the desire to change it. I think we sense and we know that, yeah, maybe there is a better way to do policing in this nation. I think for me, those conversations are wonderful and great. My issue is that it's very easy for nothing to actually happen. Like, it's great to talk about it. Efe Mike-Ifeta - 01:01:48 Yeah, for sure. Efe Mike-Ifeta - 01:01:49 It's good to talk about it. I love it. I love that people are engaging in this content, but it's very easy for it to just kind of stop there, especially on that high level, just moving forward. Efe Mike-Ifeta - 01:01:59 And I know this question here is hard to articulate, but what does it look like? What does, what does equity look like to you? Efe Mike-Ifeta - 01:02:11 Oh my gosh. For me, I think, man, that's a broad question too. Efe Mike-Ifeta - 01:02:25 Yeah, I know as best as you can. Efe Mike-Ifeta - 01:02:28 Fair enough. What we want is to create spaces where everybody can be seen as a complete equal. That is the lamest answer I can think of. So no matter your. No matter your gender or your sexual orientation or gender, sexual orientation, race, cultural background, religious background. Sorry, that we can actually not make any assumptions or we can just focus on people's individuals and not sort of paint them with a brush or not assume things of them because of who they are. Efe Mike-Ifeta - 01:03:23 You know, I think you've. You've articulated very, very beautifully. You know, where we need to. Where we need to be headed. I know there are no easy answers to this. You know, it's going to take a long, drawn out conversation to even remotely scratch the surface. But I just wanted to get your take because I know that you're very active and you're very vocal about social issues and especially what has happened in the last little while. So it's very great to get your thoughts on all of this. Just let us know where we can fnd your stuff and all the places we can go consume your music and everything that you're working on. Efe Mike-Ifeta - 01:04:10 Yeah, you can fnd me on Twitter or Facebook or Instagram. My handle is drewbrownmusic on the three major platforms. And then you can fnd my stuff's on Spotify and itunes and all the rest. And then hymns for the Architect. On Instagram, it's Hims for the Architect, also on Facebook, but on Twitter, it's Architect Hims because it's too long of a name. So Architect Hims on Twitter. Efe Mike-Ifeta - 01:04:44 Awesome. Wow. It's been a fascinating conversation for me. I have learned a lot, I think, with a person of your caliber and just your story and all that. You know, these conversations, they never end, to be honest. It's a. It's one long continuum. You know, you're just gonna, you know, keep talking and wherever we pick this up from the next. Next time we get together or. Or maybe we do something like this or something on video, there will always be something to talk about. But I truly want to thank you for your time today. Again, I have to reiterate the fact that you are an amazing artist. Part reason, just like I said earlier, being able to stick to the kind of music that you create, I think speaks a lot of volume. Efe Mike-Ifeta - 01:05:41 I've learned a lot about your faith today and how that's interwoven to the things that you do in the social justice circle and also you as a person. So, Drew, it's fascinating talking to you every single time we get to do this and I am looking forward to the next phase of your life. I am going to take a front row seat and watch all the things, amazing things that you do in the future. So thank you so much, sir. Efe Mike-Ifeta - 01:06:11 Thank you. It's always good talking to you and again, I really appreciate what you do for the musical community here in the gta. It's you're doing a great work. So thank you for that and thanks for having me on the show. This is great. Efe Mike-Ifeta - 01:06:26 Awesome. Okay, have yourself a good one. We'll keep talking, sir. Efe Mike-Ifeta - 01:06:29 Sounds good. Efe Mike-Ifeta - 01:06:30 Take care. Efe Mike-Ifeta - 01:06:30 Bye. Bye. Efe Mike-Ifeta - 01:06:32 And that's our show today. We are working hard to bring you brand new shows. If you love today's episode kindly share with a friend or better yet search for us the talent next door on all major streaming platforms like and then subscribe. It will help us be seen and heard by a lot more people. Until our next show it's bye for now.