Speaker 1 - 00:02 Let me formally welcome you to public Conversation, Rachel Hickey. We talk to artists across the country about their musical background and projects they have in the moment. It's my honor to welcome you to the show today, so thank you very much. Speaker 2 - 00:17 Thanks so much for having me. Speaker 1 - 00:19 Awesome. Awesome. I'm always intrigued about the place to start a conversation, and I. You know, I. I listened to your song, and I think what captured my heart initially was just how haunting your vocals were on that track, Man. I think it speaks so deep. And then I start to watch a whole ton of videos and saw you performing live, and it's such a strong performance, and there's very little difference between you performing live and you on a record. And I. That is so rare this day. So I want you to take me through the evolution of yourself as an artist and your sound and how you have gotten to that place where it's so polished and refned. Speaker 2 - 01:05 Oh, yeah, for sure. Thank you so much for saying those things. It's. It's been a journey. I've been, you know, working on it for my whole life, I guess. So. That is really nice to hear. Yeah. I'll take you right back to the very beginning as a very young Rachel. I've always been intrigued by music and performing, which is interesting because I didn't grow up in, like, a very musical family, besides the fact that there was pretty much always music playing in the house. So I grew up with basically two genres, and that was classic rock and contemporary Christian music. So it was whatever dad was playing in the house when he's cleaning or, like, you know, in the garage or whatever, it's classic rock. So all of those. And like, Speaker 2 - 01:51 And then, yeah, whatever I heard in church and sang in choir and that kind of thing. So that, I think, plays a big role in. In my musical upgrade, bringing. And just, like, the connection that I feel to music. And it's always been this, like, deeper level of connection, like, emotionally and stuff. I. I've since kind of, like, grown beyond that, and, like. But it still is quite the core of my being. So. So, yeah, there was. There was those kind of two things growing up. And, yeah, I was just always very intrigued by. Yeah. Making music. It made me feel really good. So I just kept doing that, I guess, even as a kid. Speaker 1 - 02:32 Yeah, no, that's. That's fantastic. And at what point did, like, did you pick up an instrument? At what point did you factor in that would enable you possibly execute on a higher level with your music? Speaker 2 - 02:47 Totally. Yeah. Like, as a kid, like, we, like, singing was the frst thing, of course. And, like, my mom would have, like, CDs, and we would just. Me and my three brothers would just like, dance around in the living room singing to these, like, you know, these little kids CDs. And she would also have us kind of, like, she would kind of write these parodies to songs that we would sing together as a group for, like, family events and stuff. And you'll fnd, like, pictures of me. I'm just beaming. I'm like, yes, I love this. And my brother. Others are like, get me out of here. So I just really took to it. And yeah, by the time I was like eight, I was like, begging my mom for piano lessons because piano was like, what I saw. Speaker 2 - 03:31 Like, it was the accompaniment at church. And, like, piano is what I saw, like, my. Some of my other friends playing. So I was like, that's what it's gotta be. I gotta play piano. And my mom wanted to make sure I was very serious about it before, like, you know, investing a lot of money into piano lessons and a piano. So she got me like a Walmart toy piano to start on. And there's like, yeah, I just started on that. She's like, okay, she's. She's legit. We'll get her a real piano. And we got one from, like, this old lady on Kijiji. And then I had an upright that I just like, yeah, really? I still have it. I made my mom keep it even though she moved and, like, remarried and like, I'm like, you must keep it. So it's still around. Speaker 1 - 04:12 Yeah, that's nice. Yeah, that's great. Okay, so I fnd you such a strong vocalist. I'm sure you've gotten this comment multiple times. Who are the folks that you have that, you know, have inspired you? Speaker 2 - 04:34 Yeah, defnitely. I think. Yeah. Like, growing up, I had those two kind of genres. But when I started to kind of get into my own music taste, it was Kelly Clarkson, Carrie Underwood and Taylor Swift were the three, like, CDs that I had on my, like, CD player at home. So defnitely early infuences there. Like, if you're familiar with Taylor Swift, she has this song called Dear John. And there's this really long held out note. And I would just sit in my room and practice, like. Like, just like, see if I could make it all the way to the end. Like, she could. So I learned a lot. Yeah, the people that I listened to. And then of course I sang in choirs and in high school I did choirs and, like, drama. And then what really Pushed my voice forward, was in university. Speaker 2 - 05:31 I joined the acapella club in my frst year at University of Waterloo where I graduated from. And I had like gone to this small, like, Christian school and then I was going to this big, like, public university. I'm like, oh my gosh, like, what am I going to do? Like, I wonder what's going to be like, the music. And then I like went on the clubs PA and like the frst one was like a. Because it was in alphabetical order and it was like acapella. And I was like, I just watched Pitch Perfect. I was like, this is the one. And so I like audition and I like get in and like we're starting to learn choreo. And they're like, okay, Rachel, so you're going to give us two poses. One's like super confdent and one's like super sexy. Speaker 2 - 06:11 And I was like, sorry, what? So I really came out of my shell. And yeah, so I don't. I don't have like formal vocal training, but I have a lot of like, experience based kind of stuff. And like, I spent fve years in the acapella club and like we had like vocal coaches come in and we all kind of learned off of each other and it was a very like, group kind of learning experience and like gained like a really strong understanding of like harmony and like arranging, which I think played a huge role in everything that I am today as an artist. So I, I realized later that it's really ner, but I thought it was really cool and I still think it's very cool. So, yeah, shout out to acapella and all my. My pals there. Speaker 1 - 06:58 Yeah, shout out to. Yeah, shout out to them. No, because so you talked about harmonies just now and there's. There's a lot of that in your single that we're going to get to high. And it's done so tastefully and so well and it adds on to this layer I spoke about earlier about. About it just being haunted and it driving that kind of like ess what you're talking about. But I want to go back a little bit. So I have been blessed to keep talking to people who are lyricists and I absolutely love that. So before we come to just how. How, you know, amazing the writing is in high, I want you. I want you to maybe paint a picture for me, a background as to how the lyrical components of what you now do as an artist came about. Speaker 1 - 07:55 Like, were you poetry? Like, because most of this stuff reads like something that C.S. Elliott would, Would write back in the day. So tell me about your writing journey. Speaker 2 - 08:07 Absolutely. Yeah. And thank you for T.S. Eliot reference. Wow. I. Yeah, I've always, like, loved writing and, like, piecing together, like, stories. I was always writing stories as a kid too. And, like, when I started kind of delving into the. The songwriting kind of area when I was a teenager, I really didn't know what I was doing. I knew I liked writing. I liked, like, to read. I tried some, like, poetry, that kind of thing. And so I would just kind of, like, start writing and kind of copy what other people were doing. Like, I'd listen to Taylor Swift or like Gabriel Lapland. I'm like, I don't really have life experience. Like, you know, I can't write about anything later. I will write about my childh. But yeah, so that's kind of where it started. Just whatever, trying things. Speaker 2 - 09:06 Not super pulling from my own experience because I just didn't think my experience was worth being shared at that time, which is so silly. But anyway, we grow. We'll get there. But yeah, then in university, I took English, took some creating writing courses, studied a lot of the poets. So I think that's where the writing kind of growth happened. And then I started writing more about my own experiences. And, like, I would just become, like, so intrigued by, like, I'm like, this imagery idea, and I'm like, how can I, like, make that in, like, this cool way? And, like, I would just get this rush whenever I could make, like, a cool line or something like that. So I was really, like, motivated or I guess interested in that. Speaker 2 - 09:54 And then when it comes to high, I was just feeling some writing writer's block a little bit. And I was like, I want to try to write a song with as much metaphors and, like, some leaves in it as possible. Let's see what happens. And then my subconscious took over and it turned into this, like, this whole thing. So, yeah, that's kind of high in a nutshell. Or how the writing kind of evolved. Speaker 1 - 10:18 Yeah. Yeah. Okay, so now tell me what high is about. I have interpreted it for myself, but that's. That's just me. But there's a line in there that I think I'm going to try and center this conversation around. But just tell me what high is about. Speaker 2 - 10:39 And I'm glad that you kind of have your own interpretation because I think it's a perfect song to kind of make your own assumptions about, because it is a little vague if there's a lot of imagery So I love that you have your own interpretation of it as well. For me, not like my grandmother thought, it's not about getting high. She was like, rachel, is this. Speaker 1 - 11:02 I saw that post. I saw that post on Instagram. Speaker 2 - 11:05 Yeah. So I thought that was hilarious. And I was like, oh, yeah. I really didn't think about it. But the. The, yeah. High came from, like, as I was writing it and just kind of letting these words spill out and seeing what happened, I was like, maybe this song is about how I have high expectations for myself and like, where did these come from? Like, yada. I like, wrote this song like three years ago almost, which surprised me. I thought it was more recent, but it really did start to evolve a while ago. And yeah, I've sat with it for a long time now and have, like, gone to therapy and, like, done a lot of, like, self work and all this stuff. And now I'm like, reading back the lyrics, which just honestly just kind of like spilled out. Speaker 2 - 11:52 I was like, really relying on just whatever was coming out of my head at that moment. And now I'm reading it, I'm like, oh, like, this is a lot deeper than just having high expectations for yourself. This is a lot of self doubt. This is a lot of, like, introspection. This is a lot of questioning, like, who am I? Like, who was I? Like, who will I become? Like, do I know her? Do I like her? Like, do I show people who the real me is? Will they like me if I show them the real me? It's a lot of, yeah, a lot of anxiety and introspection and just honestly, an identity crisis in a nutshell a little bit. And just, yeah, kind of working through that and coming to terms with it. Like in the bridge, it says, I'm never coming home. Speaker 2 - 12:44 And that is kind of like I can't go back to my old self and I have to move forward now and keep discovering it's going to be a lifelong kind of journey of self discovery. Yeah. Speaker 1 - 12:55 And you took that right off of my mouth because that one line, I am never coming home. It's interesting because I know you refer to it as the bridge, but that's kind of like beyond the chorus. That's like, kind of where the song leaves off. And it's such a strong line, a strong decision to kind of like end up in the song saying, I am never coming home. Right. It's. It's so strong. But. So let's back up a bit and talk about this. The self introspection, the whole idea of Being self aware to the point where you understand this duality of doubt and confdence, being able to coexist at the same time. I have always been fascinated about that. You know, a younger version of me thought we always had to be one thing at one particular time. Right. Speaker 1 - 13:48 But as I have grown older, I now understand that those things, they by design, actually have to live together. Right? That's the positive and the negative, like night and day type of stuff. And the totality of our existence, you know, lives on that, you know. So when you were questioning and trying to explore all of this question, how did you, like, how did you get to the point where that became something that you thought you could question in music form? And why was it necessary that you questioned it at the time? Speaker 2 - 14:27 Yeah, that is a great question. I think it's so interesting because it's taken me like, so long to kind of like, really fgure out what the meaning of the song is to me. And like, I think my brain was just being primed, like, the whole time. Like, I'm in like, English class, right? We're talking about binaries and like these. This duality, right? And exactly what you were talking about. And it just totally brought me back as you were saying that. I'm like, oh, my gosh. Like, me and my. My friend who was also in English, we used to, like, when everything would go wrong, we'd just be like, the light in the dark, baby, the light in the dark. Like, it was like our catchphrase. And so I think that's around the same time, like, because I was. Speaker 2 - 15:10 This was the friend I was living with at that time, and we would always be saying that. So I think I'm literally just realizing this now. I'm like. I think that really played into it. I was like, my brain was kind of primed with this, like, duality because, like, a lot of those statements in high are very contradictory. There's some that are confdent and there's some that are totally, like unconfdent and. And self doubtful and. And stuff. So I'm. That's something that I still am working on today. Like, you know, like, you can be both. Like, I just wish every. Sometimes I wish everything could just be packaged in a cute little box and like, be like, this is this and this is. But that's not life. That's not life. And so, no, yeah, it's. Speaker 2 - 15:52 It's a good reminder whenever, like, you know, I sing it or whatever too. It's. It's a really good reminder that there is so much Duality, and that's. That's the way life goes. So I think. I think I need to get to that point. I needed to, you know, like, have some independence. Like, in school, you have some sort of independence, of course, but, like, when. When you really leave and you're really, like, out in the world and you're, like, suddenly an adult and you're taking on all of these. These things and, like, these past wounds are opening up and, like, maybe you're starting to go to therapy, like I was going to therapy and. And still am, but, like, you're just really. And of course, Covid. Giving you a ton of time to introspect. So, yeah. Speaker 2 - 16:38 So, yeah, I think all that played into to that. Speaker 1 - 16:40 I'm a huge fan of words. I'm a huge fan. Fan of lyrics, right? And there are things. There's certain. There's certain writings I see, and I'm like, damn, I wish I wrote that. Like, I. I wish I wrote that. This is one of them. I'm just looking at the lyrics here, and I think my favorite line or two lines from the song is, I am perfection never quite free. I. The frst time I heard that in the song, I'm like, even if the second line, the stuff you said, always searching for something that's never quite me. Like, even if that second line did not come, that. That's just that sentence alone. And perfection never quite free is so loaded. It's so heavy. Like, what do you even do with that? Like, it's so. It's so. It's so heavy. Speaker 1 - 17:39 But I guess the point here is your writing is so good, and this. This packs a lot of meaning, and it packs a lot of strength, and it's just a very skillful way to explore the topics that you have. Have raised in this song. High. So I just. I want to celebrate you. I want to celebrate the writer, and I want to celebrate Break the music. Tell me about the recording process and how, you know, how. How that felt like making. Making this. This. This great song. Speaker 2 - 18:20 Yeah, man, it. Yeah, it was a long time coming. Like, as like, an independent artist, you kind of have to go a little bit slower just to fund everything. And, like, I was. Yeah. Just working on different projects and, like, slowly, you know, making my way. The last EP that I wrote, I wanted it to be like, the full album, but it was just like, whatever. Let's just make it smaller so I can, like, put something out and still, like, you know, eat. Speaker 1 - 18:49 This is so long. Speaker 2 - 18:50 Yeah, so. So I think High was. Was on the list for. For that one. But the so Long EP was kind of like the B sides of what would be the album. So now we're coming into album territory and it's like, yeah, just like that. Yeah, the stronger songs, I guess. Even though I love the songs on so Long. So, yeah, it came time to. I'm like, it's time to like start recording the album. And I had started kind of playing high live a little bit like kind of solo, kind of gauging people's interests and like, had always gotten a lot of like good feedback on it and like, oh, this one is like something special. You should like record this one. I'm like, sweet. So we decided to do that one frst and release it as a single before all the others. Speaker 2 - 19:41 And I felt like it was a good choice because it kind of separates. It's like the next kind of step for me as an artist. Kind of moving from that soft kind of sad, still, like set emotional boat over like, but softer kind of folk frolicking through the forest type Rachel to like a more powerful, like, driving beat. Like, we knew we wanted to make it a little bigger for this one. So I was working with the same producer as I did on so Long. Just had a really good experience. It's just the two of us working in the studio together. I bring the, you know, the guitar and the lyrics and the weird ways that I try to explain how I want things to sound and I don't know, it just works really well together. Speaker 2 - 20:30 It's Brandon Federeau and Kitchener, where I spent a lot of time after school and during school, of course. So, yeah, I think it, you know, it's always like a little bit nerve wracking going into the studio with something so personal. Like, what if it changes and what if it doesn't capture the like, emotion that I want it to? But I feel like. I don't know if it's because there's like not a whole lot of outside infuence or if it's just because it's just me and Brandon in the studio. We're like talking through. But like, I think that we both had some strong values and like the emotional side of things. Speaker 2 - 21:04 And I found like, if I told Brandon a story, I was like, I want it to feel like this or like, give him some imagery or like, then he'd come back with the next revision. I'd be like, whoa, that's exactly it. Like, how did you do that? So it's just, it's A good pairing, I think. And. Yeah, and like, I think it just like as a non producer, as just like a singer, songwriter right by. That's like the main skill set. It's like sometimes hard to communicate, but it really worked well. So. Yeah. Speaker 1 - 21:37 Awesome. Awesome. No, I can't. Yeah, there's. There's just so much in the song. I, I'm happy I, I've gotten to hear it. I. Yeah, I'm just happy that you came across. I'm a fan of your work and your music. Like I said, I went and listened to some of your live performances and I'm like, she is strong. She is strong. Like, she is really strong. And I, I like, I get really passionate when I see like artists who are strong. Right. Like they like they can write and they can perform and they can sing. I think those three things are so. Yeah, anyways, that's me, but I'm a fan of yours. Are we, are we thinking about the video for this project or. No, not yet. Speaker 2 - 22:30 Okay. Yeah. So for high, there is kind of like, there's one out on YouTube. It's a, it's kind of like a. It's not really like a narrative video, but it's more of a kind of vibe video. And it wasn't actually supposed to be, but we kind of made something out of nothing. I like had my photographer that I've worked with before come to do this like kind of album vibe shoot and I brought along my. One of the players in my band actually, who also does videography work. And I was like, Isaac, come along and you can just flm some behind the scenes and stuff we can use for like, you know, Spotify canvases and Instagram and whatnot. Speaker 2 - 23:12 So he comes along and he ended up getting like a lot of really cool footage and I was like, I could put this into a music video. So I just edited it together myself and then there's just. Yeah, now it's on YouTube, I'd say. Yeah, it's kind of indie, more of like a visual kind of like piece, less than a narrative piece. But I think it's. It kind of like shows some vibes and it kind of captures the kind of darker feel of everything and it kind of gives a little teaser to what the rest of the album is going to be like and kind of the visuals there. So. Yeah. All flmed in my mother's house in Stratford, Ontario by three people. Yeah. Yeah. Speaker 1 - 23:57 Okay, I'm going to go. I'm gonna go look for that and watch it. Hopefully, when. When we're cutting this video together, we're gonna insert it there for a bit, so. So people can. Can see it as well. But, yeah, congratulations on the song on the. On the. On the full EP that's going to be coming out soon. Do you have a. Is there a title for it just yet? Do you have a name for it? Speaker 2 - 24:21 So the album, it should be out. Fingers crossed I get some grant funding in. It'll be out hopefully by the end of the summer. And it's going to be called the Eve of St. Agnes. And that is a title stolen from a narrative poem by John Keats. And I'm really letting my English nerd shine now. But I. I read this poem, like, right after I graduated in 2020 and was, of course, sent home to be with my family and hang out there for a bit until I fgured out what was. What I was going to do. So I. Yeah, I read that. That poem and I realized I was also writing a lot at that time. I was teaching myself guitar, and just, like, learning guitar just brought out this huge, like, inspiration of new stuff for me. So I was writing a lot. Speaker 2 - 25:15 I was reading this poem, and a lot of themes were connecting, and I was like, I could do a concept all about. I just love, like. I love a story. I just love connecting, like, themes. So, like, yeah, themes that really came out were just this, like, dreams and reality and, like, fantasy and like, all that kind of stuff. So, yeah, the. So the. The visuals you'll see in the video are, like, inspired by the eve of St Agnes, which is a poem about this ritual that girls will do. And they do all these weird rituals like sticking pins in a pincushion and walking up the stairs backwards and, like, all these weird things so that when they go to sleep, they'll. They'll dream of their future husband and whatever. Speaker 2 - 25:59 Anyway, this is maybe not the greatest explanation of it, but it's all about, you know, dreams and reality and fantasy and the mystical and. And all those themes will play out through. Through the record. So. So, yeah. Speaker 1 - 26:11 Awesome. Speaker 2 - 26:13 That was a lot to unpack, Rachel. Speaker 1 - 26:19 I'm like, okay, I want to process that. No, but I'm. I'm looking forward to listen to that. Please. When the album drops, we'll be very much interested in talking to you again and doing all that we can to promote it, but it's been a blast. Congratulations on the single and all the stuff that you're up to. We are fans and we will keep rooting for you. What I'd love to do is actually see you live. So whether it's in Ontario, we're out here in Edmonton, but whether it's in Ontario at some point, I think that'd be really cool to see perform highlight, because it's just. Yeah. I think. Powerful song. Speaker 2 - 27:06 Thank you so much. Yeah. Hopefully I can make it out to Edmonton soon. Yeah. Put it on the list. Speaker 1 - 27:13 Or we coming. Yeah. Or we coming out there. Whichever. Whichever works frst. Okay. But thank you so much, Rachel. It's been a blast. I have thoroughly enjoyed this conversation, and we're gonna keep in touch. Speaker 2 - 27:25 Please do. Thanks so much for having this chat. It was.